Monday, October 03, 2005

Florida teacher resigns over unusual classroom punishment

Several months ago, I wrote that men who really hate other gay men--given the fear-based origin of their hatred--also hate women. And now, in--drum roll, please--Florida, we have a twist on the old punish-boys-by-making-them-wear-dresses system of humiliation. An elementary school teacher tried to force two sixth grade boys to touch knees and hold hands in front of their classmates and announce that they were gay. The teacher also told the class they were gay.

The boys' transgression was that they had mouthed words to each other while the teacher was talking to the class. The teacher has sinced resigned under fire, but, as inappropriate as his behavior was, the fact remains that the way to humiliate boys is to say that they are either girls or gay.


Question: Do you yourself dislike men?

Your conclusion from your linked previous post is wrong about why being called gay or girly is offensive to a man. It is not that said men hate women, it is because such an insult attempts to strip a man of the very thing that makes him who he is, his masculinity. Gender is such a fundamental aspect of a person's identity that the real threat is not that they abhor the idea of being a woman, it's that they can't stand being stripped of their identiy as a man. I know the feminist movement for some time now has prided itself on becoming more masculine, so the concept that a person's identity as either a man or a woman is absolute, and as much if not more so a part of who they are as anything else, is a foreign idea to most feminists and related thinkers. In their quest to demonize men without attempting to understand them, they find false cause and try to convince themselves that a given behavior stems from a hatred of women, instead of a profound respect and love for them.

Put another way, the insult/embarassment comes not from the man's hatred of women, but from the attempted nullification of his LOVE for women.

By Blogger Mike M, at 5:46 PM  

I like anyone, male or female, who is honest, compassionate, and not ignorant by choice. In my own life, that would include a number of men.

By saying that the feminist movement has become "more masculine," you have given yourself away, I'm afraid.

And I stand by my original statement: Really homophobic men have such intense feelings because they have a projected fear of becoming, in a sexual sense--the worst thing they can think of--a woman. Not because woman is the "other" and these men would cease to retain their natural masculine identity, as you say, but because they perceive women as passive receptacles whose role is to submit.

By Blogger Diane, at 6:07 PM  

Given myself away to what? It's a statement of fact that the feminist movement is interested in removing all societal distinctions between men and women, and they're doing it by forcing or perhaps coercing women into more masculine roles and activities. I'm by no means saying that everybody has to do what is "traditional," I recognize that individual circumstances necessitate adaptation... Just one example, women a hundred and fifty years ago were expected not to use crude language. They as a group decided that they wanted to swear and be gross just like the men.

There was once a time when men would be horribly ashamed to belch in the presence of a lady because women were regarded as too good for that kind of behavior.

All around we see left wing womens' advocacy groups saying, "we want to do everything men do" (even the horrible stuff) Once upon a time it was taboo for women to be sluts. Now it seems to be praised. Women, through the feminist movenemt have lowered themselves from the elite, respected class to participating in all the social garbage that has generally been restricted to men.

Two things that I believe are genuine positive developments of the feminist movement are a woman's right to vote and to own property. Maybe there are a couple more things I can't think of right now, but by and large, the Women's advocacy movement has been more and more concerned with replacing men in society with women. Whereas there is no corresponding movement by any men (none that are taken seriously by anybody outside of their own bubble, that is) to replace women as bearers and nurturers of children and as supremely important in keeping men's less refined tendancies from destroying the world.

Real men and sensible know and understand that we need each other, and that each is a wonderful and essential part of any sort of meaningful life.

By Blogger Mike M, at 6:35 PM  

I do agree with you about liking people who are honest, compassionate and not willfully ignorant. I think that's a good point.

But what you have is an unwillingness to consider that you may be wrong about men, particularly when addressing someone who loves everything about women, holds them in extremely high regard, fights for thier honor, and will kill anyone who tries to castrate him.

By Blogger Mike M, at 6:39 PM  

Slight correction: Second to last paragraph in previous comment should read, "Real men and sensible women know and understand that we need each other, and that each is a wonderful and essential part of any sort of meaningful life."

By Blogger Mike M, at 6:46 PM  

I don't need a man, for what it's worth, I'm fine on my own. I think having a partner is nice if you can find the right one. I truly believe no one needs a significant other to "complete" them. And anyone who does is probably just codependent to some degree.

That being said, Mike M., I doubt you get it.

Women and men ARE equal; and obviously, they are different. Mike M., you sound like the white guys who don't know they are racist who say, "but some of my friends are black, of course I'm not a racist."

The womens' movement is not MAKING women more masculine. We are merely GRADUALLY getting the opportunity to be humans, without being molded into some pre-conceived male notion of what female should be. And slow-going it is.

If our society wasn't so sex and gender obsessed, women would truly flourish.

Many men seem threatened by the possibility that someday women may want to shed the makeup, fake parts, anorexic behavior, and spike heels. Would you be interested in dating or marrying a woman who wore no makeup, dressed comfortably, and lived life according to her own agenda?

Something tells me no.

By Blogger Unknown, at 7:23 PM  

So I suppose "hate" women isn't exactly correct. "Have no respect for" or "feel superior to" might be more accurate. If women would just act like women, dammit, you'd like them just fine.

What you don't seem to get, Mike M, is that my identity as a woman is in no way affected by what you do. And frankly, it's not really affected by what I do. It's part of who I am. If I cuss, then I'm a woman cussing. If I wear a dress, I'm a woman wearing a dress. If I program computers, I'm a female computer programmer. It doesn't matter - I'm still a woman. You can call me masculine or feminine or girly or butch or whatever. It doesn't really affect who I am.

By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:42 PM  

"Gradually getting the opportunity to be humans?" Wow, someone's bitter. Y'know, you'd have a happier life if you spent your time figuring out how to improve yourself instead of griping about imagined "opression". Why don't you direct your women's rights anger to Africa, where rich people have hundreds of wives, where female genital mutilation is as routine as being born in many places.

By Blogger Mike M, at 11:41 AM  

"American women are better off than women in other parts of the world, therefore they should shut up and stop complaining" is a tired old piece of sexist garbage. Yes, women in America are not stoned by family members when they are raped or suspected of having sex with someone not their husband, nor are they beaten on the street if they don't cover their faces.

So what? Every girl and woman in America faces sexism every day of her life, from being sexually harrassed at school or in the workplace to dealing with increased sexual assaults and rapes, to living with the deification of men who sexually assault women and have no consequences to being told they cannot have their prescriptions filled by pharmacists who not only have no busines intruding, but who are totally ignorant of biology. We die because doctors cannot be bothered to test us for heart disease, or because auto makers never thought of us at all when they designed air bags. Our gynecologists are around 30 years behind the gynecologists in Europe, and have little useful to offer us, other than drugs that destroy our bodies. If we are disabled, we cannot get a pap test or a cervical exam. If we are lesbians, we cannot get married or--in most cases--adopt children. If we are poor, we are told to go to work but that no one will care for our children. If we are black, we are told that the needs of black males have to come first. We are still called "Congressmen," "postmen," "policemen," and "guys," while God is still called "He." We are constantly asked if we can balance a career and a family, while no man is ever asked that question. If we are famous and in politics or science, TV talking heads will spend 10 minutes talking about our outfit, and 1 minute talking about our achievements. We still do not make the same pay as men for doing the same or comparable job. We still cannot get but a few jobs as corporate executives, university administrators, and high-ranking military personnel. If we do get those jobs, we face overtly or covertly hostile male environments. A group of men in Washington decide for us what will happen to our bodies. Insurance companies will pay for you to have frequent erections, but not for our birth control products. If a man irritates people, he is criticized for his behavior; if a woman irritates them, she is attacked for her appearance. If a man has several sexual partners, he is "a player." If a woman does, she is a slut. If a man takes control of a situation and exhibits authority, he is "a leader." If a woman does the same thing, she is a bitch. In America, a woman is still expected to give up her name when she gets married. Many mainstream churches preach that the man is the head of the household. If a man goes on a business trip, it is because "he has to for his work." If a woman goes, and there are men there, she is considered, at best, inappropriate, and at worst, a slut. So-called liberals back away from supporting any female candidate for president because "America isn't ready."

Believe me, I have just scratched the surface.

Also, I am a Second Waver, which means I have been around a while, and I have yet to meet a feminist who thinks there should be no distinction between the genders.

So, Mike, since you already know how I feel about the willfully ignorant, please peddle this very thinly-veiled bigotry somewhere where readers are backward enough to appreciate it.

By Blogger Diane, at 12:56 PM  

It's really interesting how many of the things you listed I agree with wholeheartedly...although I suspect that most have different reasons...well...maybe not all. I don't know what your reasons are.

I think you're right about a few things... for instance, our medical system, while it's darn near the best in the world, needs quite a bit of help...first off, let's get the lawyers out, and viagra out of government benefits...From there, let's get concerned women like you VOCAL and active in helping improve female nutrition education and work to get more people into those fields of medicine that will be helpful.

Do you notice a pattern here? screaming "SEXIST! BIGOT!" isn't going to get anything done, just like it hasn't gotten anything done for the last 30 years, no matter how much you think it or want it to be true...drop the emotion and start thinking in practical terms...ask, "what can I DO to improve things, to get help to those who need it, to educate people instead of teach them to be professional victims"

There are a vast number of problems in the world that exist only because they have not been dealt with in an appropriate manner. But if you ever want to be taken seriously, learn to be diplomatic and understand that you're not going to make much progress in influencing people by calling them bigots and sexists. Insulting people never changed any're old enough to know that...grow up.

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